There are many around the world, and especially within the Christian elements of the Dissident Right, who question whether Roman Catholics are “Christians.” From the outside looking in, I can understand why they feel that way. Afterall, the use of intercessors (physical and spiritual), human-designed rituals, and the veneration of the Virgin Mary, are just a few examples as to that which seems to conflict directly with Biblical (i.e., Sola Scriptura) Christianity. That stated, there is a key element that gets lost in the interpretation of Roman Catholicism (hereafter referred to as “Catholicism” for the sake of this article): Jesus Christ is the source of Salvation in Catholicism. True Catholics understand this fundamental principle of the faith. Consequently, I can come to no other conclusion than to assess that Roman Catholics are Christians. However, those who have never been Catholic or were less invested in its teachings (i.e., cultural Catholics) may not see that foundation through the variety of elements that contribute to Catholic worship. Thus, a longer exploration of this answer requires greater examination.
To begin, I am no longer a Roman Catholic. I left the Catholic faith on theological grounds. My beliefs are more aligned with Presbyterianism, but even that is not a perfect fit due to some of my Christian Identitarian beliefs. Regardless, I left Catholicism not because of any animosity or ill-will toward the faith or the faithful. I will always be an ethnic Irish-Catholic. Rather, I left because I read my bible (KJV) and came to a different conclusion regarding our personal relationship with Jesus Christ and key teachings of the faith. Still, I believe the Catholic Mass, especially the Latin Mass, is extraordinarily beautiful. Only an Eastern Orthodox Mass can rival its transcendental appeal. Furthermore, having grown up in a traditional Catholic household – sedevacantists without the title – I have a deep understanding of Catholic doctrine and appreciate the beauty of the faith. Consequently, I understand “why” Catholics hold to certain traditions and methods of worship.
Regardless of my personal theological leanings, I refuse to believe that everyone who accepted Jesus Christ prior to the emergence of the Protestant Reformation went to hell. Those who state that Catholics are not Christians literally condemn to eternal damnation millions of Catholics who died before the emergence of Martin Luther or John Calvin, including the brave Catholic warriors who died fighting Muslim hordes in Spain, Eastern Europe, and the Middle East. That is a position that I cannot embrace.
The reason that many Protestants question the Christianity of Catholicism is due to the presence of imagery, methods of prayer, and certain theological tenants that they believe contradict Biblical Christianity. Whereas I share some sympathies with regard to these positions, it is important to note that Protestantism is rooted in a desire to reform the Catholic Church, not necessarily replace it (although, some of those reforms would make the Catholic Church unrecognizable). In fact, the term “Catholic” simply means “universal” or “all encompassing.” Thus, when Presbyterians and Methodists, for example, say the Nicene Creed at service and affirm that they “believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church,” they are not referring to the Roman Catholic Church, but to a universally grounded principle of a Church grounded in the truth of Christ’s salvation. Still, in order to understand those positions, it is important to explore some of the bigger issues that are in question.
Before I begin any further, I have to address the Baptist perspective on the Protestant-Catholic divide. Baptists do not consider themselves Protestants. Rather, they claim a lineage that grew parallel to the Catholic faith, not an outgrowth from it. Whereas there is no historical basis to make a claim of an independent, parallel outgrowth, there is historical evidence of Baptists growing parallel to mainstream Protestant faiths beginning in the early 16th Century (as Anabaptists). A collection of very small, independent movements seems to have existed prior to the Schleitheim Confession of 1527, upon which Anabaptist principles were codified. The basis of which would form the foundation of radical Christians who rejected mainstream Protestantism, such as the Hutterites, Mennonites, Amish, and modern Baptists.
Most likely, the Anabaptist movement neither dates back to the earliest foundations of the Christian Church nor out of thin air in 1527. I suspect they emerge when the printing press effectively democratized Christianity, by bringing the Word to the masses – who had the means to purchase books – after Guttenberg’s printing press emerged in 1440. This is the beginning of a concept entitled “Sola Scriptura” – the bible as the sole authority of the Christian faith. Prior to the mass dissemination of the Word, churches and seminaries guarded the bible very closely. Faiths that grew outside of the Catholic and later Protestant churches would have relied primarily on oral retellings of scripture due to the unavailability of bibles and the extraordinary expense of books in general.
In effect, these parallel non-Catholic/non-Protestant movements, even when they are closed communities, embody an Evangelical approach toward the Christian faith and are often lumped into a grouping called “Low Church” faiths. Whereas mainstream Protestants, especially High Church practitioners (Episcopalians, for example), share certain familiarities with the Catholic faith and can recognize key components (while rejecting some of the theological underpinnings), Anabaptist derivatives are completely unfamiliar with Catholic worship and therefore, equate much of that which they see as some form of paganism. The incorporation of theological exploration and man’s interpretation of the faith are largely void. Evangelical faiths are not interested in highbrow explorations on theological questions because the bible is the only answer they need. Meanwhile, the mainstream, “High Church” Protestant embrace of “Prima Scriptura” (the bible as authority, but the inclusion of mankind’s traditions to empower worship and community), seems to be the bridge between the Roman Catholic faith and the Evangelical faiths, leading the latter to largely conclude their Protestant brothers are misguided Christians, while Catholics are simply wrong and unlikely to enter heaven.
This brings me back to an understanding of the Catholic Church’s perspective on the bible, worship, traditions, intercessors, and the sanctity of key elements within the physical and spiritual church. The Catholic Church, like its Eastern Orthodox kin, believe that scripture and tradition are inseparable. There is a veneration for tradition because it brings order and highlights scripture. More importantly, for Catholics, engaging in various acts before, during, and after Mass, are part of a transformative stage of worship. Whereas a study on the totality of the Catholic faith would be far too large a subject, I will present a few examples of Catholic beliefs and traditions that may or may not be lacking from other Christian faiths, but may seem odd without context.
The use of holy water upon entering a church, and making the sign of the cross, is a means of reminding a Catholic that baptism not only washes away sin, but he – the Catholic – is part of a unique community of other individuals Baptized in the faith and he is about to worship among his fellow Christians. In addition, it is a reminder to wash away sinful thoughts and demonic influences, as you prepare to enter a state of blessed worship. Genuflecting to the Body of Christ contained within the tabernacle upon entry into a church, is a means of divine submission to Christ. Catholics believe that transubstantiation occurs within the Holy Communion (the body and blood of Jesus Christ) at the point of the Eucharist blessing. This converts ordinary bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Jesus. Consequently, accepting the body of Christ requires a pure heart, an absolved sinner (Confession), and someone who truly understands the significance of that which they are about to consume. Thus, the importance of the First Communion Sacrament, and its importance to children.
For those who truly believe in the Catholic faith, there are a number of traditions that draw the Catholic into a state of divine worship. Again, this is hard for an Evangelical to understand, and to be fair, most Catholics do not really understand their own faith because they are simply raised Catholic as a default religion. Candles illuminate prayers through focus. Catholics are supposed to bow fully at the waist when passing the alter, as a means to venerate the place upon which the ultimate sacrifice of Christ is reaffirmed weekly. The litany of prayers enters a melodic intonation, such that the community becomes one. If you actually listen and learn the prayers, it becomes more than mere ritual. It transforms the state of being, from a common person on the street, to one who worships Christ in unison. Even practical traditions have a purpose. The use of incense, for example, is an important tradition that comes from a time before normal bathing. In earlier times, it created an aromatic fragrance that focused the Church community on the worship before them, not the smells around them. Today, it is most often used during funeral Masses.
Of all the things that make Protestants and Evangelicals question the Christianity of Catholics, it is the use of intercessors – i.e., those who work on an individual’s behalf before God. The Catholic veneration of saints is considered a problem, especially the Virgin Mary. In effect, Protestants see the use of saints as merely a replacement for that which were once called gods, and Mary is nothing more than Hera or Juno renamed. I will address the “worship” of Mary, first.
The Catholic veneration of Mary is complex and a much bigger subject than I can describe in one article. That stated, it is important to under the Catholic perspective on Mary. To the Catholic faith, men are in charge – period. There may be a few women on an occasional council, but men make the decisions. Still, women play a critical role in the overarching faith, as wives and mothers. Family is crucial to a true Catholic’s understanding of himself. The mother – as matriarch – ensures the continuity of homebound and cultural traditions, while the father – the patriarch – provides for the family. In this regard, Catholics see a biblical parallel between that which existed between God the Father, God the Son, and Mary the Blessed Mother. She is the matriarch. She is not above God – as either Father or Son. Rather, she is the embodiment of that which Catholic women should be. God the Father provides for us all. God the Son provides eternal Salvation. Mary, the Mother, effectively feeds the flock, through her love and emblematic virtue.
Of course, it gets harder for Protestants when Catholics pray to Mary, or for that matter, other saints, instead of Jesus Christ. To begin, Catholics are not forbidden to pray directly to Jesus Christ. They can do so at will. But the Catholic perspective on saintly intercessors is nuanced. All Christians during times of trouble will ask individuals to pray for them. If Christians believe that we are incapable of death, because we have eternal life through Jesus Christ, why, therefore, is it wrong to ask those who have physically passed, but eternally live, to pray for them, too? If Saint Christopher, for example, as the Patron Saint of Travelers, was himself a traveler and understand the travails of travel, why not ask him to pray on your behalf and help plead your case to Christ? Whereas I personally no longer subscribe to such a position, this is the general idea: individuals who were once as we are can better articulate our needs in prayer and provide divine support when needed. As for Mary, as the Mother of God Incarnate, it is believed her special relationship with Jesus Christ empowers an ability to bring one’s needs to the forefront, not unlike a mother imploring her son. Again, this does not mean that Mary is the source of Salvation for a Catholic. Rather, she holds an important role as His Holy Mother.
As it pertains to human intercessors, such as the priest in the Confessional, it is hard to understand why this takes place outside of an understanding of Catholicism. While the practice was likely abused as a means of blackmail by clergy at various points in history, the real reason is simple. When the practice is not abused, the purpose of Confession was literally to admit to sin. It was a means to acknowledge the need for Christ to someone whose very profession – a priest – was the embodiment of the Word as a leader of the Church. In other words, a priest took a solemn vow to dedicate his life to the faith, including a surrender of his own mortal needs, to invest himself entirely in the church and the flock within it. As a leader, he has both a moral obligation to soothe the sinner’s sense of guilt and provide just punishment for sins that could disrupt the faithful amongst him. The concept would be foreign to those who believe Jesus is the only one who can forgive – and I agree. But the very purpose of Confession is not a replacement of Christ; the Catholic sinner still must make an Act of Contrition prayer imploring Jesus’ forgiveness. The purpose is an acknowledgement of the sin in order to address it.
One other source of contention is the use of iconography. Protestants and Evangelicals take issue with the heavy ornamentation of Catholic churches, especially the use of the crucifix. To them, the crucifix is an image of a Christ that has not yet risen. In effect, it is believed to be a visual affirmation of God the Son in a perpetual state of death. To Catholics, however, the entire faith is grounded in an understanding of the suffering that Jesus experienced on our behalf. The crucifix is not an affirmation of death in perpetuity, but the extraordinary sacrifice of our God who loves us so much, He bore all of our sins at one profound moment. Again, this is the Catholic Church’s commitment to a Christian centered faith that may be misunderstood by outsiders, but for Catholics, it is not misunderstood at all. Christ died for our sins. Catholics see the crucifix as a constant reminder of that fact.
Finally, one last element that causes consternation among some Protestants, is the lack of the bible in Mass. This is especially true for Evangelicals. The Catholic worship is very structured. Again, for those who understand the Mass, it is designed to imbue a sense of Christian community through prayer, incantations, and physical actions that display reverence (such as kneeling during the Eucharist blessing). This is part of a nearly hypnotic entrance into a spiritual purpose of worship. The bible is present in the Catholic Mass, but the use of snippets leads to a given homily (sermon). It begins with the first reading, which is an Old Testament passage. A second bible reading comes from the New Testament, but not one of the four Gospels. Liturgical ministers, who are not ordained, read these passages. The final reading is a Gospel passage. It is read by a priest who then proceeds to tie the passages together in his subsequent sermon. Passages are not generally read from a bible by the congregation, but usually a booklet or possibly a paper handout. This practice would be familiar to most High Church Protestants and even some Low Church Protestants. The bible is present in the Mass, it is simply not something that most Catholics would carry to church. Catholics are encouraged to read the bible, but – and this is where Evangelicals get squirrely – the general position of the Catholic faith is that reading the bible should also come with some form of informed context.
In sum, the purpose of this article was neither to defend nor attack any particular religion. It was simply to add context to one of the world’s largest religions and one that once held a strong “national” identity in its own right. For many of its faithful adherents, it still does. It would be impossible to write one article and provide a deep understanding of Catholicism. I understand why some may question the methods and means of worship engaged by Catholics. In that regard, one may consider the faith misguided. To question the Catholic’s commitment to Jesus Christ, however, would be wrong. Catholics are Christians. They believe in the sanctity of Jesus Christ. I hope this article provided some insight where little to none may have been before.
The son of a recent Irish immigrant and another with roots to Virginia since 1670. I love both my Irish and Southern Nations with a passion. Florida will always be my country. Dissident support here: Padraig Martin is Dixie on the Rocks (buymeacoffee.com)
You surely know how to provoke a multitude of comments in your subject choices and I’m sure this one will be no exception! I’m a independent Reformed Baptist who would basically subscribe to the 1689 London Baptist Confession. That said, without endorsing any of the peculiarities of Catholicism or EO, I’ve learned much from their adherents. R.J. Snell, in particular, has really been insightful on the doctrine of the Trinity in describing it as “substance in relation”. I really love the English Puritans, but staunch Protestant churches are also defecting today from what I believe is essential. Finally, I believe that ‘strait is the gate and narrow is the way … and few there be that find it”. That leaves me little time to anathematize others.
Somewhat surprised by this question, and without delving into each theological point which may or may not have been accurately represented (I may do so later), I can assure Roman Catholics are Christians, actually the first Christians, small c Catholic (universal.) Yes, the Smoke of Satan has entered the Church and many are culturally brainwashed as well. But we old School Catholics are holding the line. Enjoy your writing and glad I found you, even if taken aback by this question.
Hello, Lisa. I wouldn’t worry myself over the question in the post title if I were you. Although I certainly understand why you would. I have a humorous anecdote to share with you on point:
When our eldest son was no more than 17 years-old (he is now 36), he met and took an interest in a girl about a year younger than him. When I asked him later about how things were going in the fledgling little “relationship,” our son indicated that he had begun to have serious reservations about her and her family. When I further inquired why, he said that he had asked her whether she and her family were Christians, to which she answered, “no, we’re Catholics.” At 17 years-old our son knew virtually nothing about Catholicism per se, so he took her answer to his query to mean that she and her family were … anti-Christian. As you can probably imagine, I got a good laugh out of this. But I also took time to reassure our son that “they’re Christian, she just doesn’t know it.” I also used the opportunity and the example to reinforce to him that he should be very cautious about putting much stock in *anything* a dizzy-headed 16 year-old girl says, Protestant and Catholic alike. LOL
Thanks for that! I would only add that we have no reason to think the girl “didn’t know it”! I remember growing up responding that way too, only because there seemed to be such a clear delineation between “Christians” or non Catholics, and our large Catholic family. We knew we were Catholic and always knew we were Christian! All the best.
I, too, left the Church when I entered college, but by then I was essentially an atheist.
Americans get confused about Catholicism, because it is a minority faith in this country, and by an large the faith of non-Anglo immigrants. But world wide, about 80% of Christians are Catholic; Protestants and Orthodox each comprise about 10%. This, of course, is due to the immensity and long duration of the Spanish empire.
The Catholic Church is just a Western Orthodox church, similar in many ways to Eastern Orthodox. My question is:
Are Southern Baptist Christian ?
The biggest de-facto difference between Catholicism and Orthodoxy is that, starting sometime in the Middle Ages, the RCC started to rely too much on rationalism and scholasticism IE they began to loose faith in their own religion and felt the need to go back and read Christian messages and such into the various pre-Christian pagan philosophers.
Orthodoxy, on the other hand, doesn’t really try to explain things rationally. EG a Catholic will insist that you believe the eucharist becomes the literal blood & flesh of Christ through transubstantiation, whereas the Orthodox person will say that one is free to personally believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation, but he is not free to claim it as dogma
Some are, yes.
Of course Southern Baptist are Christian. What kind of silly question is that?
The into to this entire article is that Catholics are Christian because they believe in Christ coming, crucifixtion, burial and raising for the salvation of mankind. That is the epitome of a Southern Baptist and everything they believe in through faith.
The problem with ALL religions is that they are religious to a point of creating traditions that conflict. In the end it is Jesus Christ, that’s it.
Yeah we’re Christians and our preachers aren’t queers who molest young boys.Got that Catholic boy.I’ve been in a Catholic Church and it fits perfectly the demeanor of all the bitter,hollow Yankee ethnics who attended.I guess that’s what happens when your”church”service is always led by effeminate homosexuals who are as far from God as anyone can be.The mostly female and children congregants don’t seem spiritual at all,more like entranced cultists going through the motions.
World war 1 was fought between Portugal and Holland, 2 powers left Europe, the first to Globalize the world for the social reign of Jesus Christ, during the counter reformation, the latter for the new secular state material based society ruled by marketeers, obviously we know who’s winning that never ending conflict.
If you called yourself religious in the past, you would be a Monk or a Nun, there was a clear distinction from the laymen, who didn’t give up everything for the Lord. The veneration and intercession of the Saints comes from the passage “a good mans prayers availath much”
The Holy Mother church represents the body of Mary, the front doors being her womb, after mass and the sacraments you would exit her womb and be born again. The Holy mother church was the tallest building allowed by law. Christianity was losing its fervor and according to a catholic book I’ve read about the rosary, a priest endured self Flagellation to the point of coma, and he was visited by Mother Mary who instructed him to include her in the faith. Catholics know that the word became flesh through her ear by the Angel during inception of Jesus Christ. “Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee”
What is fascinating to me is the Emperor Diocletian put the Roman Empire back together including the Roman and Greek pantheon, and pretty much handed it over to the alien Christian authority’s when he couldn’t stop the conversions to Christ, to this day the Catholic Church uses Diocletians governing policy’s and Social structure. Diocese being an example. I think it’s a shame that he isn’t recognized in a Roman Old Testament type knowledge, he really feared for the future of Rome and Europe with what he called the most destructive thing that could of happened to his people.
The Reality of the Catholic Church and empire is that it failed to the secular marketeers, keeping the peasants fat happy and free.
We should all know this yankee experience could not end any other way than it is. I cannot deny a Loving Creator, I will move on in a personal way with God in what I hope a continual prayer for deliverance and grace.
I will avoid organized religions myself for now.
Thank you for all you do Padraig.
God Bless you Sir.
I would suggest this: even if you don’t agree with ABCXYZ positions of a given church, or various social aspects of it, you should go to church anyhow and keep any disagreements you may have to yourself so as not to spoil it for the more simple minded in the congregation.
Like, when I go onto Eastern Orthodox web forums or read about various dogmas and such in books that I disagree with, there are many instances, especially amongst the really hardcore people, to where I’m like “yeah well that might be fine in theory, but I don’t really see how this would actually work-out IRL”. But I keep my opinions to myself and let ultimate judgement over the necessity of obsessive adherence to various theories and dogmas to God.
We’re in the unique situation to where, unlike literally every single generation of Christians prior to us, we have access to the Internet IE the entirety of Human (and demonic!) knowledge that’s still extant. The types of debates we might get into or philosophical questions we might find ourselves asking have basically never been asked before, at least in the hyper-concentrated way in-which the Internet allows people to segment and split up groups over relatively minor differences.
Division is from Satan, unity is from God. Don’t fall into the trap of making the perfect the enemy of the good
Very good work, and appreciate your unique perspective on this given your background.
One issue besides those you mentioned is the RCC’s exclusive claim to salvation. At least historically, it claims there is no salvation outside of the Roman church and by extension the jurisdiction of the pope. The Bible teaches there is no salvation outside of Christ, and that you must repent of your sins, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be born again to be saved. This means there are believing Christians across different churches and denominations (including the Catholic Church). The pope is a man and a sinner like any other mortal man. This is partly rooted in the sacerdotal system you touched on above re: confession.
With these things in mind, I agree with you that there are many believing Christians in the Catholic Church, and that attacking Catholicism is not a productive idea for Protestants on the dissident right.
I also tend to see the inverse from certain circles of the right wing. Traditionalist Catholics and Orthodox who constantly attack Protestantism and the reformation. A non-starter in America. Protestantism is a defining characteristic of America at large and particularly of Dixie.
Well, the Roman, Orthodox, whatever church can claim there’s no salvation outside of their particular church, and one is certainly free to quote scripture EG “no one attains salvation except through me”
But… that’s always rubbed me the wrong way. Like, when you make a positive claim— “you must be a Christian or God will damn you”, that’s IMO than extreme example of the sin of pride.
God doesn’t “have to” to anything, even fulfill his own prophecies. He could decide, for no reason given, to save the sinners and damn the saints.
He can mark certain people for salvation or damnnation (think: irresistible grace) without regard for what acts they do or anything.
Personally, I don’t believe good people who exist outside of the Eastern Orthodox Church, even outside of Christianity, are barred from salvation— but this is an important distinction to make: I may have the right to have my own views, but I don’t have the right to go around and challenge the 2k year tradition of the church based on my own opinions, or to disrupt the social pragmatism of the Church by nitpicking apart it’s dogmas.
An analogy would be going into battle: an individual private ranked soldier knows nothing about the war he’s going into except that which he’s been told, he doesn’t have all the information necessary to decide if XYZ battle plan is pragmatic or even moral. He just has to do his duty and leave those big decisions up to his superiors and hope they’re right and that he won’t be killed or wounded.
The question is on who’s authority the exclusivity of salvation is made. Jesus’ claim in the gospels that he is the way to the father is certainly not prideful. This claim only becomes prideful when the authority of man, ie a certain church, denomination, Pope or any other non essential is added onto it as a requisite for salvation. Jesus cannot be guilty of the sin of pride as he lived a sinless life.
If God damned the saints that would make him a liar and an imperfect and unjust god. It comes down to the authority of the Bible and whether God means what he says. It’s my belief and the historical Protestant belief that the word of God must be the final authority, which sadly many Protestant churches have abandoned.
As I said earlier, I believe there are believing Christians across many different churches. Good day and God bless
Has anyone read St.Thomas More’s writings? He plead to not have Gods word mass produced. He claimed the simpletons would interpret it 1000 different ways, in and out of season, and the people of England would fracture along spiritual lines, that a homily like Padraig above described would be sufficient to hold England together from surely the dilution of Noble power. You see, like in Rome, the Roman Gods gave the Nobility it’s power and purpose, St. Thomas warned that the charge of Gods word is sacred, it holds the Noble power of England and all Nobility stems from it.
St.Thomas More got his head chopped off and hung on London Bridge.
A Saint needs 3 Supernatural occurrences or Miracles delivered to the person who prayed to that particular would be saint to obtain that title, and those 3 miracles pass through a court of Men to authenticate its validity.
I Personally believe the form of Christianity we have in America right now is our greatest downfall as a people, the cure is worst than the disease. It is the worst of multiculturalism.
We need a new Christian Reformation, we need to see Gods power manifest throughout the land, throw off the Church parties, throw off the political parties, there’s only one party for us and for our Children, The Noble Houses of God Party.
William Tyndale took the opposite tack from More and, really, I think the current cultural situation stems more from an ignorance of God’s Word rather from the proliferation of it that More feared. I will concede though that ‘liberalism’ has been a two-edged sword. Unleashing the powers of the middle classes has yielded some positive societal benefits. On the other hand, the absolute autonomy of the individual that has emerged against historically established institutions and the belief in God-ordained legitimate authority has been disastrous.
“Belief in God ordained “legitimate authority has been disastrous”
The reason for Divine right rule I believe? I do know that the kingdom of Christ was a reflection of Heavenly order on earth, as above, as below.
The author William Thomas Walsh is a brilliant Catholic apologist, he wrote characters of the inquisition, in which chapter 1 has Moses as the first inquisitor, bringing moral law to his people, and killing those that opposed it. It was written in 1940 and he gives his take on that time also, I didn’t agree with everything he said but that was rarely. It’s really unfortunate that Spain had to resort to that level with Christ, but like Walsh said, you could leave the country, 1st time offender could petition for forgiveness, it was the second time offender that would usually get fried, and the law that was broken was Blaspheme to the King, Jesus Christ. A lot more Jews were protected than harmed by the Spanish Inquisition. Like Walsh says, it was the ones that hold power in America now that the inquisition would root out.(1940)
Phillip the second and Queen Isabella were Fantastic books by him also.
I could go on and on. It’s not often ID has a Catholic thread.
I should of said “sacrosanct” instead of “sacred” up above.
I meant to reply to you earlier but couldn’t get my thoughts together.
Yeah, 1000 different interpretations is a big problem with reading the Bible.
Personally, I endorse the Orthodox Study Bible and all its various commentaries.
However, speaking as someone whose spent entirely too much time over the last decade reading books and debating with people on the Internet, I’ve gotten to the point to where I don’t really see the utility of doing various deep dives into religion or reading books. Much of it comes across as debates on how many angels can fit onto the head of a pin.
Taking part in the ritual of the liturgy and vespers and paying attention during the pre-church “Bible study” hour are enough for me.
And actually, my own personal life and degree of virtue are much higher, and my adherence to Christian morality are much greater now that I’m not spending all day with my nose in a book like the nerd I used to be, getting into debates with people and having to “defend my positions” or tear down other peoples
This may not be true for everyone however, but I do caution the sorts of people who end up in our sphere against reading too much or getting too intellectual with their religion— faith and reason should go together, but they don’t correspond 1:1, and assuming that by reading Christian works you’re going to become a better Christian, especially given that 99% of historical Christians who were much more virtuous than us, were illiterate, would seem to disprove that
I believe that the Catholic religion is deeply flawed, just as the protestant denominations have their flaws, but when an individual places his faith in the Christ of Scripture and nothing else—the whole Gospel, nothing added or taken away—then his name is written in the book of life. Many in it are Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, so on and so forth, and many that were in each of those systems never had the faith, but only seemed Christian outwardly.
In Revelation, the seven churches of Asia Minor are credited for what they get right, and judged for what they get wrong. This is a thumbnail of all the Christian systems that exist in history. Only the Laodicean church gets spit out of Christ’s mouth.
I usually try to add quotes to the discussion that are brief and pointed, but I think the following from Konstantin Pobedonostsev (Russian Orthodox) expresses your sentiments very well, and will hopefully spur some of our readers to read the whole of this very valuable work:
“Intolerance of strange beliefs and strange opinions has never been so sharply expressed as it is nowadays by the apostles of radical and negative beliefs, among whom such intolerance is merciless and bitter, and joined with animosity and contempt. When we consider the relations of these teachers to the new doctrines they proclaim, their intolerance is more abhorrent than the old religious intolerance. p. 165. Yet such passionate attachment to their own convictions, or to the doctrines of their schools, is an attribute [of] all the prophets of negation. Rejecting, as if it were not, the whole former history of the spiritual development of humanity, ignoring all ancient faiths and the spiritual conditions of peoples, denying all rights of independent existence, repelled not by the sanctity of personal faith, they claim admittance to every soul, and everywhere strive to establish their new religion. … What is this but a terrible violence against the conscience of others—and in the name of what? In the name of personal opinion. In this Hell of vanity we can find neither love nor faith. But without love and without faith there can be no truth. How different to listen to the voice of the old true teacher! What faith and love, what knowledge of the human soul is there in those words in which the Apostle to the Corinthians enjoins respect for human conscience. He knows the truth, but with his deep spiritual knowledge how cautiously would he approach the human soul! His purpose is that the soul shall accept and embrace the new belief in the spirit of sincerity and truth by faith alone, without disunion, without discord with itself. All that comes not from faith is sin. And the Apostle teaches the strong and learned that they must spare the consciences of their weaker brethren even in superstition, when the soul is not ripe to accept the truth with entire faith.” pp. 166-7.
Konstantin Pobedonostsev, ‘Reflections of a Russian Statesman’, trans. Robert Crozier Long
Good article. The only thing is, I think you left out the biggest concern many Protestants have with Roman Catholicism. And that is the idea of Justification by Faith Alone. This was really the idea that sparked the Reformation in the first place. Luther never had a problem with ritual, confession, or the idea of the real presence. It was Rome’s view of justification that Luther had the biggest Problem with. The idea of Justification by Faith Alone, as well as the Trinity, Virgin Birth, and The Resurrection is considered an essential Christian doctrine amongst most conservative Evangelicals (especially Reformed the folks). Many folks will conclude that Rome has a false works-based Gospel. This idea is further supported in verses like Galatians 1:6, and Galatians 5:4. And this idea may sound nutty to some, but this was the majority Protestant view up until the Modernist period of the
1900s.
Not arguing theological points, just stating that almost every single Catholic I know are of the “cultural Catholic” branch. They treat the church and worship service as a social event, they almost never read the Bible, know very few of the stories within the Bible, cannot answer any serious question about their faith, and cannot give any reasoned explanation for the prayers to Mary other than, “gee, if Jesus won’t even listen to his mum then poor chance he’ll listen to me.” I believe all the ceremony and rituals of the Catholic church are responsible for creating members who don’t feel the need to take religion seriously or establish a personal relationship with the Lord. Most feel that getting sprinkled with water, eating a few crackers, drinking a little cup of wine, and occasionally reciting some rote prayer are all it takes without any deeper spiritual experience. To summarize, almost every Catholic I know is extremely shallow about religion.
Not denying that Protestant churches don’t have the same issues.
No one who knows me would ever call me a communist. I’ve had many pejoratives hurled my way … but not that one. I’d respectfully suggest you balance your reading of Jefferson with some John C. Calhoun:
“Instead, then, of all men having the same right to liberty and equality, as is claimed by those who hold that they are all born free and equal, liberty is the noble and highest reward bestowed on mental and moral development … Instead, then, of liberty and equality being born with man; instead of all men and all classes and descriptions being equally entitled to them, they are high prizes to be won, and are in their most perfect state, not only the highest reward that can be bestowed on our race, but the most difficult to be won — and when won, the most difficult to be preserved.
They have been made vastly more so by the dangerous error I have attempted to expose, that all men are born free and equal, as if those high qualities belonged to man without effort to acquire them, and to all equally alike, regardless of their intellectual and moral condition. The attempt to carry into practice this, the most dangerous of all political error, and to bestow on all, without regard to their fitness either to acquire or maintain liberty, that unbounded and individual liberty supposed to belong to man in the hypothetical and misnamed state of nature, has done more to retard the cause of liberty and civilization, and is doing more at present, than all other causes combined.” pp. 568-569.
John C. Calhoun, ‘Speech on the Oregon Bill’, June 27, 1848.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life, none may come to the Father but through me.” That’s all I need and it’s why I am Baptist. My true belief is that whether you are a Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, or whatever so long as your relationship with Christ makes you a better person and it gives you comfort then rock on brother.
Me and my little one love to go flint hunting in our part of Florida and every time we find an artifact I marvel at what those people lived like and the land how it was along with the fauna of the time. I also think about how their relationship with God was and at no point do I ever believe those people are burning in Hell due to the fact they did not know Christ at that time. If anything they were closer to God than we ever will be.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life, none may come to the Father but through me.” That’s all I need and it’s why I am Baptist.”
Amen brother
Charles says:
“My belief, for what it is worth – Americans, comprised of mostly but not entirely whites, could re-take the United States, make it American again, if so motivated. But they will not. They will not because of their Protestant “Christianity”. Anyone, like I, who was raised in a low-church Protestant household knows that Jews are not simply respected but venerated. They are not referred to as Jews but as the Children of Israel. To question Jewish interests is to question the religion. Therein is the insurmountable obstacle.” ~ unz.com/article/jeffrey-sachs-and-philip-giraldi-the-ukraine-war-is-yet-another-neocon-war/#comment-5439740
The Protestant Rejection of Hierarchy and Community
“The American role in international affairs has been, and continues to be, shaped by the Protestant origins of the United States. But the Protestantism that has shaped American foreign policy over two centuries has not been the original Protestant (especially Reformed) religion, but a series of successive, secularizing departures from it on a down-sliding scale. I will refer to this descending scale as the Protestant declension. We are now at the end point of this declension, and the Protestantism that shapes American’s global role today is a peculiar heresy of the original religion. It is not the Protestant Reformation but what might be called the Protestant Deformation. In the 1990s, with the United States left as the sole superpower, this Protestant Deformation is at its greatest, now global, influence. But because it is such a peculiar religion, and indeed is correctly seen as a fundamental and fatal threat by all the other religions, its pervasive sway is generating intense resistance and international conflict.
All religions are unique, but Protestantism is more unique than all the others. No other religion is so critical of hierarchy and community, or of the traditions and customs that go with them. Indeed, most other religions are based upon both hierarchy and community (in addition to Roman Catholicism, also Eastern Orthodoxy, Islam, Hinduism, Confucianism, and even, to a degree, Buddhism). At its doctrinal base, however, Protestantism is anti-hierarchy and anti-community.
The removal of hierarchy and community, traditions and customs — of any earthly intermediaries between the individual and God— strips away, at least for the most important purposes, any local, parochial, cultural, or national characteristics of the believer. In principle, grace, faith, and salvation can be received by anyone in the world; they are truly universal or catholic, in the original sense of the latter term. The Protestant reformers saw the vast variety of cultures and nations through a universal perspective, one that was even more universal than that of the Roman Catholic Church.” ~ fpri.org/article/1999/05/religion-and-globalization/
for the protestant in the final analysis… the only mediator will be the global monarch: goodreads.com/book/show/23629443-when-a-jew-rules-the-world
like I said, they all shillin commies here… global monarchy is the antithesis of national sovereignty and IS communism as only the monarch and his retinue the oligarchical usury collectivist will claim right of ownership of all property globally: there so called “lord of lords: https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm
King James Bible
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the Son of Man, in whom there is no salvation. Psalms 146:3 https://odysee.com/$/download/Shezmu_720/c78fb12d6acb53120bfa0b1e4949a6303a45b9cc
Indubitably Commie IngSoc’s—archive.org/details/rebel-yell-75-2017-07-20-paranormal-yell-freemasonry
“Why are Governments borrowing money from Private Banking Systems, and the Population Paying Interest on the Borrowing? Why aren’t the Governments issuing their own Currency Interest Free?”
Next he adds, really of Central Importance: “And Lending it to the Population Interest Free, to Go about Their Commerce, and Go about Their Daily Lives, Creating Opportunities and Choices, that they would otherwise not have?”
Conclusion
Whites/Westerners were 33% of World population in 1900, and only 9% now. We have been in steep decline for over a century, and we’re now facing a terrifying coup de grace.
There’s no point mincing words. It’s going to be genocidal. Deagel always maintained their numbers were based on the collapse of the financial system. Jacques Attali, already 30 years ago, said the debt bubble, based on American housing, would last until around 2025.
Because it is Usury that is Behind the Debt Bubble, the Derivative Bubble. It is by Paying our Usury that we Pay for Communism and World Government, and all the other Plagues that haunt us, the Wars, all the Evil Ideologies, the Destruction of our Families.
“Why aren’t the Governments issuing their own Currency Interest Free?”
The Third Reich and, I think JFK, tried to do that and we saw what happened to them. You’re right. It’s gonna get real ugly unless God intervenes.
There’s much truth in what you say, but some Protestants decry these developments as much as you do.
Protestantism is evil, and its liturgical rites have been authored by the devil himself:
As the strange circumstances of Nicola’s possession became known everywhere, several Calvinist preachers came with their followers, to “expose this popish cheat,” as they said. On their entrance, the devil saluted them mockingly, called them by name, and told them that they had come in obedience to him. One of the preachers took his Protestant prayer book, and began to read it with a very solemn face. The devil laughed at him, and putting on a most comical look, he said: “Ho! Ho! My good friend; do you intend to expel me with your prayers and hymns? Do you think that they will cause me any pain? Don’t you know that they are mine? I helped to compose them!”
“I will expel thee in the name of God,” said the preacher, solemnly.
“You!” said the devil mockingly. “You will not expel me either in the name of God, or in the name of the devil. Did you ever hear of one devil driving out another?”
“I am not a devil,” said the preacher, angrily, “I am a servant of Christ.”
“A servant of Christ, indeed!” said Satan, with a sneer. “What! I tell you, you are worse than I am. I believe, and you do not want to believe. Do you suppose that you can expel me from the body of this miserable wretch? Ha! Go first and expel all the devils that are in your own heart!”
The preacher took his leave, somewhat discomfited. On going away, he said, turning up the whites of his eyes, “O Lord, I pray thee, assist this poor creature!”
“And I pray Lucifer,” cried the evil spirit, “that he may never leave you, but may always keep you firmly in his power, as he does now. Go about your business, now. You are all mine, and I am your master.” (Exorcism of Nicola Aubrey)
You sound like a retard weirdo.
I would contend that only Orthodox are really Christians. There is only one church and one true path to salvation. If anyone is saved outside of Orthodoxy it’s because God went outside of the normal process. The majority of humanity will be in Hell including most so called “Christians” of non-Orthodox background. That may be hard to accept but it is the truth.
God doesn’t go “outside of the normal process” ever, salvation comes through the gospel of Jesus Christ. One is saved by repenting of sin and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You’re not saved by joining a specific church.
@John 3:16, that is Protestant heresy. Simple confession and repenting is not salvation. One has to receive all of the valid sacraments that exist only through the one true church and live a Christian life until death.
Great article Padraig.Excellent information and points.I agree that millions of Catholics did not go to Hell.I do believe the Catholic Church well before the Hero Martin Luther has been a cult led by homosexuals and crypto Jews.Martin Luther fought the Jews just as Christ did and now the Lutheran Church censors their namesake in anything concerning his warnings of the children of the Devil.As a Baptist I’ve never minded being called Protestant mainly because of my admiration of Luther but I do believe that our belief system is continuous all the way to early Christian times.Wonderful piece,I enjoyed it so much.We must all give our hearts to the good Lord and He said once done He will never let us go.He is always beside us.Bless you and all those here in good faith.A very good group.Christ Jesus is Lord!The victory is already won.